Talk: A/D VoS Runner

Moar Build. Discuss. DarkMugen 17:58, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

im glad i just capped VoS on my sin. works better than perma.68.227.202.180 16:11, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Yup yup. its faster than perma, and fairly safe. | -- DarkMugen 16:20, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

If you want a Good Fast Sin Runner, run this...

→BERKS _deedle... dum... 21:26, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Where is this "fast" and therefore "good" which you speak of? ---Chaos- (talk) -- 17:31, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Its faster than this build.. but seriously... dark mugen says he wasnts something not lolworthy fun and challenging? run this.

gg :) →BERKS _deedle... dum... 20:45, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Didn't we trash that? I'd 5-5 it tbh. Blah at running drunk, I'd just IAU (if it works). Alsooooo, not using Echo is still just a 2s downtime, much of the echo's affect is wasted :S ---Chaos- (talk) -- 20:48, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

I gave it 5's lol... this build A/D isnt challenging or either fun.. thats why i dont see a point for being vetted. Running Mo/A is funn and challenging! :)

This build is meant to replace a perma, not to be run for fun with (none forbids you, but owell). ---Chaos- (talk) -- 21:09, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Can't afford 4 second downtime in some areas without a hex removal (e.g: Yak's Bend-Lion's Arch; if you get water hexed the melee will rape you). --ℜĭŧz ✔ 03:27, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Not true. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 10:48, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

^ Or perhaps you can run the shitty builds on my userpage? This one runs at 30% rather than 25%... Dream Traveler Haru 21:53, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Edits

Please discuss edits before making them. Dwarven Stability is an enchantment and At least during the beginning, there are a decent amount of enchantment removals which might make it less viable. | -- DarkMugen 00:25, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Vow of Silence Read.--Ikimono "...And my axe!" 21:48, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Grawl Crone + 4 second VoS down time say hi | -- DarkMugen 23:48, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

You don't use it all day. If you want to, you can just KD the Grawl on his Chilblains. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 10:48, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

There is more than one Crone and I'm sure that there are no knockdowns on my build nor any need for a knockdown. | -- DarkMugen 12:16, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Orite, I just realized you don't have YMLaD. Insert it :> ---Chaos- (talk) -- 15:05, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

This build works fine on its own. | -- DarkMugen 15:57, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

You don't get it. Bashing foes to avoid KD's and snares is manliness, and manliness is good. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 19:35, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) This build wasnt made for bashing foes. | -- DarkMugen 19:47, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

You still don't get it. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 21:20, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

I get it xD. Manliness is so gg. (and for those of you who still don't get it, it's faster to insta-KD something than to spend time preparing for it) But in all seriousness, why has this even been considered, let alone 5-5-5'd??? It's about ten miles back from the D/A builds. If you feel like running somewhere with your sin, do it somewhere that requires the safety of SF. Sure, get this build into good maybe, but if this makes excellent we have all failed. Why can't people cast real votes?Brow0081 22:34, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

You see, we basically have to compare this to a Perma when it comes to running droks. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 22:41, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Bah, I understand, but I don't agree. Any time you would/should run a perma, this shouldn't work. This just runs slow with a little bit of protection from VoW, you might as well just run this, leave options open, tell them to fill with whatever safety is needed for the area, drink one alc per zone and win. It would work, but I wouldn't give it fives.

Droks? ---Chaos- (talk) -- 07:21, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

That was my point, you "shouldn't" be do Droks with a sin.Brow0081 11:37, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Well everyone doesn't have a derv, still. It's amazing how retarded people can be about comprehending that. Explain to me what advantages a derv runner has, and don't give me that crap about survivability, none cares about it. As long as both can run as fast. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 12:06, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Pious Haste.  Thomas So Dutch  12:32, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Faster IMS that uses less of the bar. Also, as much as you may not like it, more armor, life, and compressed bar means it's more versatile about where it can run than this build. Nowhere on this build's page does it say that this is another Droks build to be added to the dozens of others. Anyway, I'm not saying this build doesn't work, I'm saying it probably shouldn't be in excellent.Brow0081 12:48, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

^Agree lets make this good. →BERKS _deedle... dum... 15:33, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

*Shrug*, I wouldn't have Greated it myself either. Pious Haste is a bad argument imo though, 6/8s Dash (as soon as it's mainbarred) should mostly compensate. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 21:27, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

People don't seem to understand that this is an A/D build. Yes. D/A runs better. still wont change the fact that its an A/D and not a D/A. So stop refering back to it | -- DarkMugen 00:23, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

I just read your comment Brow. Where does a dervish have more armor than an assassin? Cuz I have NO idea where your getting that from. The dervish has, at BEST, 25 more health when using the same runes as an assassin. | -- DarkMugen 02:09, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Dervs don't need pants. Invincible Rogue 16:54, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

Silent Assassin

03:35, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Whats the point in this? | -- DarkMugen 12:17, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

It's a bad joke, unlike asking the point in something on PvX. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 15:05, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

That is such a good joke. ^___^ -- Thomas So Dutch  15:11, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Dwarven Stability

Why not? So many other good builds use it, why not this? Harrier's is totally unnecessary. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 12:57, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Dwarven stability is good. You can use it with harrier's and dash if you have low dwarven rank. Also, shadow sanctuary sucks. Heart of shadow is far better. And the main set should be a staff. You can throw in defensive mods if you really want to. You don't really need them if you have dark escape or heart of shadow though. Invincible Rogue 01:41, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

Have you run this build to droks? The main set for this build is the defensive set BECAUSE you don't need an extreme amount of energy for this build. So you might as well go defensive. | -- DarkMugen 01:53, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Invincible has ran everything to Droks ;o I'd swap between a 8+5 armor def set and an enchanting def set, then in emergencies use a +30hp one, and obv having a higher energy set. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 10:31, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

Lol... 20% Chance to halve skill recharge on your spells is far better than an extra 13 armor. If you really wanted more AL, you could use a defensive staff. Dark escape makes it meh anyways. And heart of shadow should be main bar. I'm going to add it. If you run heart of shadow, the healing from it combined with dark escape makes your AL pretty much irrelevant anyways. Plus sins look like bad dudes when they run with staves. Invincible Rogue 03:16, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

It's true that it can add some to average speed due to faster recharging shadow steps. I wouldn't count on it to recharge VoS though. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 09:12, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Screw vos. It's only there for the steps, and it helps. You shouldn't need to vos twice within 10 seconds anyway. Invincible Rogue 00:45, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

for the steps? am i the only one lost? Its there because you need it every 20-30 seconds. not every 45. Dont be stupid please.

You are the only one lost, actually. First, this build doesn't even have Shadow Form. Second, Shadow Form was perfectly viable at 17 seconds with one minute recharge. Third, please don't be stupid. It's there for the steps. Invincible Rogue 02:28, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by steps (unless your talking about shadow steps). i KNOW THIS build doesnt have shadow form, I MADE IT like that. Screw vos. You said that. Why screw vos when it serves the purpose well. The PROBLEM is that you have to wait for shadow form to recharge to be able to prevent hexes. Mainly I'm talking about Lornars. | -- DarkMugen 02:48, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm talking about shadow steps of course. And by "Screw vos," I meant you don't need its recharge halved. HSR is so epic for steps. Invincible Rogue 03:03, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

lol about arguing with invincible rogue about a running build. -- Drah 03:06, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

What of it? | -- DarkMugen 03:16, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't know this may have something to do with it. Possibly. -- Drah 03:59, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

People say they can fly. We commit those people. | -- DarkMugen 05:30, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

"Say they can fly"? I can back it up, though. Invincible Rogue 05:26, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

Congrats so can i | -- DarkMugen 08:25, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Because Mugen is a fagfaggot: it's a rickroll. The runner also seemed bad and his skills didn't show :>

Oh, and that did just disqualify all your arguments. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 09:06, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

You're just angry that u got RickRoll'd. | -- DarkMugen 15:06, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Not really, I don't care about getting rickroll'd, I'm just annoyed with those bad jokes. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 15:18, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

1RV

Stop edit warring over Dwarven Stability. Discuss, then modify the build. ToraenTheJanitor 19:08, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

The argument for not bringing it is that you can't use it much in Lornar's due to occasional enchantment removal (which mostly harms due to Chilblains, which can be VoS'd).

The argument for bringing it is increased Dash duration, which not only buys back the lost time but is also amazingly amazing in everything. It makes VoS last over a longer distance, so if you VoS + DS + Dash there's not even going to be much of the enchantment removal.

There, can I mainbar it now? You don't use it for alcolol. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 19:12, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Someone mentioned alcohol. Gief. - AthrunFeya 19:16, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Pro timing <3 ---Chaos- (talk) -- 19:18, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

DarkMugen, you don't like taking half damage? You don't like staying on your feet? Granted you don't NEED alcohol with it, but it does allow you to use heart of shadow, and make for a faster run. Dark escape is slower than most good speed boosts but it is compensated by having half damage. Harrier's haste is just bad unless your dwarven rank is too low to use dark escape. Dwarven stability really needs to be main bar. Invincible Rogue 01:11, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

It gets Stripped. Which part of that dont you get? | -- DarkMugen 02:15, 18 November 2009 (UTC) 02:15, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

DS can't be kept up reliably due to the spawns of the Grawl Crones being too close. If you can prove it to be reliable for getting through, post a video of it | -- DarkMugen 03:36, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

There are crones like in 4 places during the whole drok's run? Some more in Talus Chute. And Strip Enchantment doesn't really matter. Go give it a try. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 08:51, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

If you have r4 dwarven, dark escape lasts 27 seconds. That means you don't even need dwarven to affect dash. Invincible Rogue 20:19, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Bah, I Dash over Dark anytime ;o ---Chaos- (talk) -- 20:21, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

You know what, Dark? I will post a video. Wanna come, Chaos? Invincible Rogue 20:25, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Sure, but not anytime :> ---Chaos- (talk) -- 09:15, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

FINALLY tomorrow I'll have time to remake it. I forgot youtube doesn't accept more than 11 minutes of tape. I had 12 minutes. :S Invincible Rogue 03:12, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

Run faster, noober. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 08:25, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

Tried running droks today, failed miserably. All I can say is its not a noob friendly build--ℜĭŧz ✔ 21:00, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Just practice til you coincidentally make it. I had to Rammo to droks without elite skills or pve skills, and I can tell you, it was terribad :> ---Chaos- (talk) -- 08:03, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

How do you get past a whole area with scattered casters, even if you shadow step twice and dash they still get me when VoS ends :\ --ℜĭŧz ✔ 15:04, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

If you shadow step twice, how the hell don't you have time to stop somewhere and let VoS recharge? ---Chaos- (talk) -- 19:39, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

I'm refering to the area with lots of Ice golem thingies, froze me right after VoS ended--ℜĭŧz ✔ 20:27, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

Requires practice. Plan ahead etc. Shadow Step -> VoS -> Shadowstep -> Runrunrun -> what foes? ---Chaos- (talk) -- 21:55, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

Hate to be the loser that resets the indent, but the video uploaded. gogogo Invincible Rogue 02:04, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

Well, that's convincing enough for me. ToraenTheJanitor 05:02, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I used VoS>Shadow step>shadow step>run D: silly me--ℜĭŧz ✔ 08:03, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

Hilarious music :> ---Chaos- (talk) -- 11:28, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

The way i do it is VoS>Run>HoS and you'll usually be able to pull away from those enemies. | -- DarkMugen 14:22, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Step first before vow. ^.^ Invincible Rogue 22:55, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

I noticed though that you were maintaining DE in the parts without enchantment removal. Is it possible you could instead dash on recharge under DS (would be a faster average speed) for those sections or do you need the damage reduction/constant speed to make it through? ToraenTheJanitor 07:11, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

You certainly don't need the damage reduction. Honestly, I've never tried spamming dash on recharge. I did the math, and it's only about 2% faster. You can if you want... I prefer to just spam the crap out of heart of shadow when using this. Spamming dash might take away the energy for that. :S Invincible Rogue 00:51, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

Oh right, energy :P. Also, it's a 37.5% average IMS if you have max delver. Dash alone would consume almost 2 pips of e-regen if you spammed it though. ToraenTheJanitor 09:35, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

12.5% faster, seen from 100% speed. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 09:38, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

I'm curious, Invincible, go race Mugen with your variant for lolz. I actually suggested it to him in MSN, and he found it a good idea to actually find out which version of this build is faster. I also expect fair play and good sportsmanship. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 08:21, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

Sportsmanship as in not popping every muddy I can? And by this "fair play" you speak of, would that require me to give him a big head start? D: Also, at r4 delver, it's an average of 31% boost if you spam dash, while using dark escape is 29%. I prefer having constant speed buffs. It gives you a smoother animation, too. ^^ Invincible Rogue 22:45, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

Lol'd. Afaik he should be through Lornar's in that time ;o ---Chaos- (talk) -- 07:28, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Not necessarily. You can pop muddies on anyone. I do it to my friends who are fast sometimes. ^^ Invincible Rogue 20:10, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

No archiving...

This still works better than SF imo cuz you dont have as much downtime. Also, your pretty bad if you cant get thru a spawn in less than 6 seconds... | -- DarkMugen 13:00, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Any/X's aren't designed for good players. You have ~22/30s Shadow Form uptime, which after you won't need to recast it for at least a minute. --Chaos? -- 13:12, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

archive?

archive it now because the new sf update shows u have 22 seconds and about 8 secodns downtime not to mention u can run by enemies more often and longer becasue theyll break aggro by the 22 secodns marker with stances up+u can cast DC and HoS. not to mention u have -5 dmg recieved becaused sf is an enchant in itself 98.242.84.83 19:48, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

no--Relyk _talk 20:49, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

inferior

This build is inferior to a/r in every way. should archive. Demonic Sin Ex 18:12, September 30, 2010 (UTC)